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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
893
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Posted - 2014.05.15 06:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just reset all my SP please, so I can train out of this ****** industry stuff I got duped into when I started.
thx bye. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
894
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Posted - 2014.05.16 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Easiest way to do it:
Cut CDO. Give Everyone SP back from CDO. Make SDO apply to all new skills.
Slightly more effort.
SDO = Light and Medium Skill Level. CDO = New drone support skill.
If you don't have CDO. You don't get ****.
e: dunno why that quoted |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
894
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote: You trained both SDO V and CDO V and you're getting exactly what you'd get if you trained SDO V and CDO V. Nothing is lost. In fact, you gain half a week of training that you don't have to do because CCP wants you to keep all your old abilities. Someone else gaining more than you do is not a loss.
1. They are not free skill points. They have already been payed for with the time that the person invested.
2. The person who is getting more right now is the person who only trained SDO5. How is that fair? By your own logic, in order to keep this fair, there should be compensation to the CDO5 people.
3. What is simple and fair is refunding the skill points.
4. Again, it's not whats lost, it's what's gained by others without investing the same amount of time.
Heh, guess you can only quote 5 times. I really gotta figure out to use the edit feature here.
I think you are missing the point.
Why do we train skills? Its not to have more SP than someone else, its to gain an advantage over someone else.
I have SDO and CDO to 5 so I have an advantage over people. After this change I will no longer have that advantage. Anyone with SDO to 5 CDO <5 will now have the exact same capacity as me for using both light and medium drones.
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
899
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Posted - 2014.05.16 16:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I edited it. Trying to do 5 things at once.
Basically, if anything, people will be getting free skill points. They take out one skill, but replace it with 2. What is the problem? a devblog provided incomplete information. a devpost corrected the info, but some people who were training skills for advantage feel they're hard done by. they're still gaining both skills. they're still gaining training time. but they feel that because someone else might be getting more "free" sp than they get, they deserve more too. No they don't. CCP is doing this because they have to enforce their "If you could fly it/use it before, you will still be able to after the change" policy. Since you only needed SDO to fly medium and lights, they have to give you LDO and MDO based on that skill. So 1 skill goes away, but 2 are added. Training CDO is not a loss. I have it to 5. Why did I train it? Because it gave my drones better damage, that's why.
All you need is SDO at 5 and you will get all 3 of the new skills at 5, CDO is being effectively removed from the game and not replaced and thus should be reimbursed as all skills that have been removed from the game have been in the past.
If CCP doesn't want to hand out new skills than they need to change their approach from SDO 5 counting for everything to SDO counting only to Drone Size skills, and CDO becoming the marker for the third new skill (Avionics?) But that is not what CCP intends to do. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
900
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Posted - 2014.05.16 18:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Gavin Dax wrote:They rage because they are not being treated equally. everyone is being treated equally. every single character will be able to use every module with the same degree of proficiency as they could before downtime.
This is blatantly false.
If I have SDO trained to 5 and CDO trained to 0 I get the following.
Current: Ability to use Light and Medium Scout Drones +25KM Drone control range. 0% Damage Bonus to Light or Medium drones.
Post Change: Ability to use Light and Medium Scout Drones (L/M Operation) +25KM Drone Control Range (Drone Avionics) +25% Damage (L/M Operation).
Do you see the difference?
Anyone who has SDO to 5 and CDO to 5 is losing their advantage. I don't think its wasted SP, but it is most definitely CCP gifting people who have not trained the skill the bonuses from said skill. Which is poor implementation.
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
900
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Posted - 2014.05.16 18:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Gavin Dax wrote:They rage because they are not being treated equally. everyone is being treated equally. every single character will be able to use every module with the same degree of proficiency as they could before downtime. This is blatantly false. i had thought it was obvious but apparently it wasn't. but i've already corrected the mistake. there's no way to prevent some people gaining something without special-casing... which is not treating everyone equally
Which is why people who currently have the advantage should be given the SP from the now defunct CDO skill to apply elsewhere.
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
900
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Posted - 2014.05.16 18:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Which is why people who currently have the advantage should be given the SP from the now defunct CDO skill to apply elsewhere.
the change isn't to maintain advantage
Well duh, thats why people are upset with the intended change. Are you a rocket scientist?
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
900
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Posted - 2014.05.16 19:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Which is why people who currently have the advantage should be given the SP from the now defunct CDO skill to apply elsewhere.
the change isn't to maintain advantage Well duh, thats why people are upset with the intended change. Are you a rocket scientist? then they're asking to be special-cased and they don't deserve attention.
No they are asking that CCP allow them to keep the advantage they trained for, or reimburse them because that advantage is being given away for "free".
The special cases are the guys who only have SDO trained to 5 but will log in after patch day with drones acting like they have both SDO and CDO to 5. Is it so wrong for people to want to maintain their combat advantage or be able to apply that advantage elsewhere when a group of people are being gifted the exact same skill set despite not having invested the training time to attain it? |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
901
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:you're entitled to receive the full effect of every skill you train for. if the skill is replaced with another, you receive the new one. which is what ccp is doing, for everybody.
as in the past, where characters have receieved the battlecruiser and destroyer skills for every race. where characters can still fly orcas, command ships and capitals without having the prerequisites anymore.
everyone receiving the new skills did train for them, by having cdo or sdo. they trained for the ability to fly drones or increased drone damage. ccp sees the need to rebalance the skills and in doing so is ensuring everyone can still do what they trained to do.
for fairness.
You've got to be trolling. This is in no way remotely similar to the BC/Destroyer change, this is in no way similar to the changes to Command Ships or Capitals. CCP didn't give anyone free skills in these scenarios.
BC change took BC skills and applied them to Racial Skills. No bonus skills, you had level 3 BC you kept level 3 BC. Same with Destroyers. - Didn't lose anything, Didn't gain anything.
With the pre-req changes to Carriers people didn't suddenly wake up with level 5 Amarr Carrier, the woke up with the ability to train level 1 Amarr Carrier (assuming they met the prereq) - Didn't lose anything, Didn't gain anything
With this change people will be gifted the 25% damage boost by having an completely unrelated skill trained. - Don't lose anything, but some folks will be gaining skill effects they do not have trained.
Do you see the difference? |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free 25% drone damage, do we?
Thats exactly what people are complaining about...and with good reason. SDO to 5 will give you 25% damage the day after the patch. A bonus that it doesn't even poses currently. CDO is effectively redundant in the equation at this point. Which means it is a skill that is simply being removed, it is not being repurposed it is vanishing, it is being rolled into SDO which will then apply to all new skills.
Alternatively people with SDO1 and CDO 5 will be given an extra 20KM range that they never had before. Which is equally poor implementation.
And because of the way the skills are you can't even make the SP apply to the new skills in an equal fashion.
So once again we fall back to:
Use SDO as the basis for new skills. Remove CDO outright reimburse SP.
If you have 5/0 you get all the skills no SP If you have 5/5 you get all the skills and SP to repurpose your now lost advantage over the 5/0 folks If you have 1/5 you get new skills at 1 and SP to be used however you want (perhaps into the new skills you just got @ lvl1)
You keep saying "fair" and "equal" and that ^ Is the only thing that is fair and equal.
Now im done responding to you because I hate repeating myself. |
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:ah, but cdo gives 5% drone damage per level. training sdo has never given 5% damage per level.
we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free 25% drone damage, do we? Not sure if sarcasm. hahaha i think i got it the wrong way around. what does sdo unlock again? /clears throat we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free t2 drones, do we?
Um they aren't getting free T2 Drones.
Lights = SDO 5 + Racial Spec I Meds = SDO 5 + Racial Spec 2.
People who have SDO 1 + CDO 5 however will be gifted access to Racial Spec which is also poor implementation in terms of "fairness and equality" |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:People who have SDO 1 + CDO 5 however will be gifted access to Racial Spec which is also poor implementation in terms of "fairness and equality" fairer than removing their access to what they can fly or gifting sp for an ability that wasn't removed.
Then maybe CCP should just give everyone level 5 in all skills since training them is apparently irrelevant in determining if one should or should not gain access to a skill effect.
Come on guy, troll harder. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
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Posted - 2014.05.16 21:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:[ Oh boo hoo. I lost a combat advantage when they nerfed heavy missiles 2 years ago. Did I get reimbursed SP? No. I did not. Get over yourself. SP is not an indication on how good you are at this game. I see low SP characters beat high SP characters all the time. Let a newbro buy an account with 100mil SP, and you will most likely see him lose a carrier because he didn't know the mechanics. I would rather test my skills against someone who has low SP and knows the mechanics and knows how to manually fly his ship; versus someone who knows shite about the mechanics and manually flying, but has a 100mil SP.
Why would you get SP for a mechanics change? The HML change had nothing to do with skills and impacted people the same whether they had 5/5 or were 1/5.
Its not about the SP number, its about the benefits being given to people who have not trained the skill, and it is applicable not only to SDO 5/ CDO 0, but the inverse as well, or any combination there in. Giving people the same skills based on the level of one skill as people with 2 skills is poor implementation.
God damn. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote: And the changes to drones are the same thing. CCP is rebalancing drones to be more inline with the game. Something they should have done years ago. Adding those 2 new skills and removing CDO is part of that process.
Ya because CCP totally removed Warhead Upgrades when they retooled the mechanics of missiles last year, Oh wait nope that skill is still there. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
905
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Posted - 2014.05.16 21:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Estella Osoka wrote: And the changes to drones are the same thing. CCP is rebalancing drones to be more inline with the game. Something they should have done years ago. Adding those 2 new skills and removing CDO is part of that process.
Ya because CCP totally removed Warhead Upgrades when they retooled the mechanics of missiles last year, Oh wait nope that skill is still there. Bottomline is CCP isn't taking away skill/ skillpoints, so no free SP.
Right they are giving away skills to people who don't have them trained, and making SP I have already trained moot.
Get it? Got it? Good. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
905
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 22:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:In just one more day, people in this thread will have spent longer complaining about the skill than they took to train it.
False!
i have already argued longer than it took me to train it. I used SP from learning skills to bump both SDO and CDO to level 5.
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